Dream Fight: Anderson Silva vs Georges St. Pierre
by Kid Nate on Apr 14, 2010 1:28 PM EDT
in Dream Fight
Email
Print
First off, I'd like to thank Donna and Beth for inviting me over to GG2MMA to rant on this topic. Michael Rome at my home blog Bloody Elbow has already made the promotional case for booking this fight so I thought I'd focus on analyzing the actual match-up.
First off let me clarify that I think the match should take place either at welterweight (170lbs) or at a catch-weight of 175lbs. While Silva will no doubt come into the cage considerably larger than GSP, I think the ordeal of the weight cutting will help to even things out a bit.
But even if the fight were to be held at 185lbs, I wouldn't consider GSP to be as big an underdog as any of Silva's last three middleweight title challengers: Demian Maia, Thales Leites or Patrick Cote.
Let's break the fight down into it's component aspects:
| Aspect | Anderson Silva | Points | George St Pierre | Advantage |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Range Fighting | ||||
| Boxing | Deadly | Effective | Silva | |
| Kickboxing | Incomparable | Solid | Silva | |
| Wrestling | Journeyman | Unmatched | GSP | |
| Clinch Fighting | ||||
| Dirty Boxing | Solid | Decent | Silva | |
| Thai Clinch | Monstrous | Decent | Silva | |
| Throws/Trips | Journeyman | Excellent | GSP | |
| Ground Fighting | ||||
| Positional Control | Limited | Excellent | GSP | |
| Top Game | Devastating | Punishing | GSP | |
| Bottom Game | Dangerous | Solid | Silva | |
| Submissions | Effective | Very Good | Tie | |
| Overall | Best in the Game | Best in the Game | ??? |
Breaking it down aspect by aspect, it would appear to be a classic striker vs grappler match-up.
But this is deceptive. GSP's wrestling is probably the best in MMA, but he has always used it as part of an integrated game plan that makes his stand up far more effective than it would be in a straight kick-boxing bout where his opponent doesn't have to worry about being taken down. According to FightMetric, GSP outscored the three best strikers he's faced -- B.J. Penn, Thiago Alves and Dan Hardy -- on the feet.
Of course, Anderson Silva is far more dangerous than either Penn, Alves or Hardy. He's faster, has a much longer reach, has far more weapons at his disposal, and hits much harder. But conversely, if you look at Silva's fights against stronger strikers -- I'm thinking Patrick Cote and Lee Murray -- he hasn't been as devastating as he can be against brawlers like Chris Leben or even Rich Franklin.
And historically, going back to his PRIDE days, when Silva has been beaten it's generally been because he lost the positional battle to aggressive grapplers who put him on his back and kept him there. Clearly it's been a long long time since he faced Daiju Takase or Ryo Chonan, but he can be taken down as his UFC fights with Travis Lutter, Dan Henderson, Nate Marquardt and even Thales Leites attest. If those guys can take Silva down, GSP certainly can.
That's why I think this fight will be decided on the ground -- even if it's finished on the feet -- if Silva can ride out GSP's first assault from top position, and even do damage or threaten submissions from his back, then he should take it. If not, GSP will claim the top Pound for Pound fighter honors.
No matter what happens, it's a fight I'd happily kill to see.
23 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
This fight would truly crown the #1 P4P MMA fighter in the world. If the battle were to take place at 170lbs, which seems likely given Silva’s agreement to go to that weight and White’s fear of how much bigger a “185lb” Silva would be than GSP.
Team TriStar/Jackson & GSP’s management would most certainly request an extended training camp time period between the announcement of this fight and it taking place. I’m thinking a 6 month window. This is where GSP gains an advantage. Silva has to focus time and energy on cutting down and preparing for a weight he hasn’t fought at since his Shooto days nearly a decade ago.
GSP on the other hand spends this time getting faster with his stand up and mixing up his attacks even more so than he does now. Sprinkle in a little Zahabi-Jackson magic and game planning (why am I picturing Frankie Edgar vs Penn) and GSP emerges more dangerous than before.
This fight is also perfect because it should bring out the absolute best in both fighters. GSP has shown dedication and willingness to train to the extreme when matched up against far inferior opponents, imagine him pushing himself for Silva? The same goes for Silva. He’ll be forced to game up for GSP if for the weight cut alone.
After Silva’s lackluster performance I didn’t think he deserved a fight against GSP but now I’m coming around since we’ll see two top fighters at their absolute best.
Good breakdown
Just a few bones to pick.
That’s why I think this fight will be decided on the ground — even if it’s finished on the feet — if Silva can ride out GSP’s first assault from top position, and even do damage or threaten submissions from his back, then he should take it.
With this, it seems like you’re somehow implying that GSP will gas out from top position; unless i’m mis-interpreting this, then I would have to strongly disagree. In fact, it seems like Georges keeps going strong for the whole 5 rounds, while his opponent gets increasingly more exhausted and weary. St. Pierre has some of the best conditioning in the sport, and has gone 5 rounds strong on multiple occasions. And with GSP’s positional dominance, I have a hard time thinking that Silva will be able to stave him off from passing on a regular basis, where GSP has complete control, can rain down enough shots and go for enough submissions to justify staying on the ground.
And even though Anderson is very comfortable off his back, and won’t be afraid to throw with reckless abandon, we’ve already seen that all that gets you is taken down. GSP is fantastic at timing shots, and going for them right when his opponent has really committed to throwing strikes.
The other thing that caught my attention was when you rated GSP as Solid & Decent in the areas of Kickboxing & Thai Clinch, respectively. And while his kickboxing/ thai clinch aren’t as devastating as Silva’s, they’re certainly better than just “Solid” or “Decent”. Anyone who can beat the shit out of Jon Fitch, Jay Hieron, Matt Hughes, etc like Georges did has more than just “Solid” kickboxing. And in the Fitch fight especially, he exhibited a very good thai clinch; I distincly remember him bringing up knees to the face with virtually zero space and with Fitch showing very good posture.
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture- "The Best Never Rest!"
Go Gonzaga! G-O-N-Z-A-G-A
admittedly
the ratings of “solid” and “decent” in those categories are relative compared to AS. We’re in the stratosphere talking about these two.
And no I wasn’t implying that GSP would gas in top position, but rather that if he doesn’t do significant damage or maintain dominant position from top position then he’ll be in trouble because lay and pray will be his only option. He won’t really have a way to finish.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Fair enough
Relative to Silva, it’s reasonable to say that GSP’s Kickboxing/ Thai clinch skills look average.
The thing with GSP though is that he’s constantly busy on the ground, if he’s not looking for strikes then he’s passing, if he’s not passing he’s looking for a sub, etc. IMO it will be very hard for Anderson to throw anything at Georges (from his back) that he hasn’t seen before. Who knows though, Andy’s ground game is very good, and his length provides a certain challenge
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture- "The Best Never Rest!"
Go Gonzaga! G-O-N-Z-A-G-A
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 14, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
his up strikes are very dangerous as well
i’m really angered that the upkick he used on Okami is illegal. That move was a thing of beauty.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Seriously.
Anderson would take this, I think. GSP would try to close the distance and get caught.
Head Kick Legend
Twitter @HeadKickLegend
One can't discount Silva's Knees
He threw that knee to Maia’s face like it was a left hook. It was insane and I think that would be a big focal point for Silva and his camp. If he times the knee when GSP is coming in for a shot it’s lights out for GSP. At 170 I think GSP takes it though. If it’s at 185 it’s Silva all the way. They should do a trilogy. Start at 170, go to 177, then 185. Lets see who the best is.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
Great stuff, as usual, from Kid Nate
rec’d
IMO, Anderson’s size and length is just too much for someone as small as GSP to handle, especially considering how effortlessly Silva uses space and angles. Even so, I can see this fight going to the ground via GSP takedown, followed by Anderson submitting him with a sweet triangle. Those long legged guys are just so hard to defend when you’re focusing hard on positional stuff. I’m not discounting GSP, nor would I bet against him – he’s absolutely amazed me numerous times. Anderson is just too long for him, I think. Add to that the fact that Silva strikes ALOT more accurately than anyone GSP’s fought, and Andy can just win this so many ways. That plum he used on Franklin would look extra tight against GSP.
I do think that this victory would solidify Anderson’s place as the greatest UFC fighter ever. That is, if he’s not already.
I also feel that this would not be a totally bad thing for GSP, as he would definetly not get embarrassed – he’s a bull. Losing to THE MAN isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Being known as the second best P4P fighter in the world isn’t such a bad thing.
Of course, this is all coming from a self-admitted Anderson Silva fanatic.
by CaptainSpaulding on Apr 14, 2010 8:39 PM EDT reply actions
I see it differently than everyone who is bashing him.
It’s no different than an NFL team getting a 3 TD lead, then running out the clock with running plays straight up the middle. Or Brock Lesnar laying on someone because he has no standup game. Or an NBA team up 25 late in the 3rd quarter, and pulling their starters. Or Floyd Mayweather picking his spots, trying not get hit in the face. There are many examples to compare it to.
Yes, I could have done without the theatrics – I thought he looked pretty stupid running around, playing games instead of respecting his opponent and the fans by fighting seriously. I will not defend his actions, because I would have done it very differently. Then again, I’m not fighting someone who is dangerous on the ground, trying to keep my belt so I can be even richer than I am now. Who knows what was going through his head? I do not.
I payed for the PPV, and will buy every single PPV he is ever on until he retires, but I’m a fan of his for life, as I believe he is a once in a generation-type talent. He is, BY FAR, the most exciting ifghter to watch – and it isn’t even close. I wish he weren’t so cocky now, but what can you do? That’s what money and fame do to people, unfortunately.
I bought every PPV Tyson was on as well, becasue you wanna be there live when something huge happens. I’ll never forget the Forrest fight – awesome, awesome stuff. He has that potential to end any fight, at any time. I’m more into the jiu jitsu stuff, but it is incredible to see a striker at his best like Anderson.
Anyway, after all that rambling, I was a bit disappointed with the fight, because I wanted to see the highlight reel KO, because I want Dana to match him up with people who can give him a fight. Maia is a very good fighter, but he is nowhere close to Silva territory. Sonnen is a joke who has talked his way (sadly) into a fight he will regret, after he sees the plastic surgeon. I am very interested in Silva-Vitor, as there will be no shortage of fireworks in that one.
Unfortunately, none of these guys at MW can come close to beating him. I want Anderson to move up to LHW so we can see him matched up against people who aren’t terrified to stand with him. Rampage WILL NOT back down. He will stand and bang all night long (until Andy blasts him into sleepytime, that is).
I’m disappointed (slightly, because the first three rounds were amazing) but can’t wait to see the guy fight again. I was happy with my PPV purchase. I do hope he fights hard next time, though.
Thanks for asking Donna, you seem to be very on top of things over here. I’m impressed. I look forward to discussing MMA with you more in the future.
by CaptainSpaulding on Apr 15, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Sonnen is a joke who has talked his way (sadly) into a fight he will regret, after he sees the plastic surgeon
If Silva beats the shit out of Sonnen and shuts him up, it will make up (to me) for anything and everything he didn’t do in the Maia fight. I’ll be satisfied. Just, please, Anderson, SHUT SONNEN UP!!!
"We don't need no water, let the Badr Hari burn!" - Michael Schiavello
by Jackie Maden on Apr 15, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks!
I agree that the Sonnen fight is going to be a joke. Sonnen has done a really great job of getting himself in everyone’s radar by talking out of his ass, but I can’t imagine what people think he can bring to the fight that guys like Maia, Henderson, and Franklin didn’t have.
No problem Donna
thanks for letting me converse here
by CaptainSpaulding on Apr 20, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m just curious about one thing… does GSP really bring that much more to the table than Sonnen would in this fight? It seems like nobody is giving Sonnen any chance at all against Silva, yet people really believe GSP can beat him.
Obviously neither guy can stand with Silva so it’ll come down to the ability to get the fight to the ground and keep it there. GSP may get the takedown a bit easier given his ability to mix striking with takedowns (shoot in as Silva throws his strikes)… but once on the ground, is GSP really that much better than Sonnen? Sonnen has controlled (you could even say dominated) some excellent grapplers on the ground in his last few fights in Okami, Miller, and Marquardt with his combination of constant pressure and ground and pound. GSP hasnt shown much at all in his last few fights once he is in guard or even passed to side control. He couldnt submit Hardy who is leagues behind Silva in bjj, and couldnt finish bj, fitch, or alves either even though he got takedowns at will.
Striking not a factor/Sonnen has equally good control from top/ Sonnen is much bigger….. So I ask again… why does everybody think GSP’s chances are so much better than Sonnen’s in this fight?
That's a good point
My only thought would be that GSP is more varied in his attack than Sonnen. Chael isn’t going to go for subs or stand up and try to strike if needed while GSP will. I don’t see GSP beating Silva unless Silva is to taxed from the cut in weight.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
Sonnen dominated three guys
who are primarily wrestlers/top control fighters in Okami, Miller and Marquardt. While Marquardt and Miller have serious jiu jitsu skills neither is known for their guard work.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
GSP's MMA wrestling is so effective
because he’s a threat on the feet. I don’t think he’s advised to trade much with Silva, but I don’t expect him to walk into a combination either.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he scored some shots on the feet.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I think Sonnen has ALOT better chance to beat Silva than GSP.
GSP isn’t ready for that level….but, neither is Sonnen.
IMO, Sonnen would pound the shit out of GSP. St. Pierre is dominating guys smaller than him, he would look real bad at 185.
by CaptainSpaulding on Apr 20, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
