Sarah Kaufman - You Won't Find Any Toughill Style Bikini Pics of Her
by Donna on Feb 24, 2010 3:28 PM EST
in Random Thoughts and Ramblings
45 comments
Bleacher Report posted an interesting interview with Sarah Kaufman yesterday. Sarah is a mixed martial arts fighter who will be fighting in Strikeforce Challengers this Friday with a 10-0 record. The whole interview is worth a read, but the part I want to talk about is here:
Spencer Kyte: A lot of the female fighters getting attention these days are the ones who rock bikinis and take photos like they’re posing for lingerie ads. Does that focus on appearance, and female fighters having to be portrayed as sex symbols and objects of desire, frustrate you at all?
Even Cyborg has gotten in on the act; softening her look and showing her "feminine side" as often as she can, talking about posing for Playboy...all this despite the fact that she’s highly respected as a fighter.
Kaufman: (laughs) I don’t think there is anything wrong with showing a feminine side if that’s you, or looking nice and presentable. Obviously image is a big thing for anyone. I understand that image really is important, but your image has to be you.
I’m wouldn’t be comfortable posing in bathing suits, that’s not my style. I’m definitely more on the tomboy side of things: skate shoes, jeans, track pants, definitely more on the edge of comfy as opposed to dresses and heels. That’s just not me, so I would have a hard time forcing myself to play that image on a regular basis.
If there were an occasion where they asked me to dress up, I would try, but I can’t promise that I would come out looking as good as everyone else. I also wouldn’t take my clothes off.
She got me thinking about women who break into sports that are typically male dominated. Think about Danica Patrick, the race car driver who is probably more famous for her pictures in tiny bikinis than for her actual driving. Google her name and the images that come up are almost exclusively of her in very little clothing.
In the spirit of full disclosure, I have to admit that I don’t really like to watch women’s MMA. There’s something about seeing a women getting punched in the face that really bothers me. But I can fully appreciate the dedication and skill that’s exhibited by female fighters. So why then, in MMA, does quite a bit of the coverage surrounding female fighters include pictures of them in lingerie or bikinis? Erin Toughill and Gina Carano are two notable cases. Even Cristiane ‘Cyborg’ Santos is getting in on the action, with rumors of an appearance in Playboy floating around. So what’s going on here? Cyborg is a woman that could put a serious beat down on about 90% of the male population, but she still feels the need to show her boobs in Playboy?
Yes, of course I realize sex sells. But these women are professional athletes, and I’m not sure posting a picture of them in a bra and panties alongside an interview of their training regime is showing them the respect they deserve. By all means, comment on how beautiful Gina Carano is. I’ll be the first to say she’s insanely gorgeous. Anyone who’s been on my website, Gals Guide to MMA, knows that I have a hearty appreciation for the hotness of many of the fighters we cover. However, that doesn’t stop me from covering guys like Dan Henderson and Wanderlei Silva, who’ll never make it on a list of Top 100 Hottest MMA Fighters. Right now, it seems like if you’re a female MMA fighter, and you’re not super hot or Cristiane Santos, then you’re not going to get much media attention. If Cyborg is fulfilling a life-long dream by posing in Playboy, then by all means go for it. But I can’t help feel she’s attempting to stay relevant in a system that sometimes praises women fighters for their beauty rather than their talent.
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Danica and Dale Jr. are the Anna Kournikova of NASCAR. They get way more attention than any other drivers, and neither of them has ever won shit. Danica has never even won a race, much less a Winston Cup, or Nextel Cup or whatever they call it now that cigarettes are bad for NASCAR fans.
And female athletes in pretty much every sport (except WNBA for obvious reasons) pose in bikinis or less. Especially with Olympic chicks, it’s their only chance to cash in on their brief moment of relevancy. There are a few female athletes, like the Williams sisters, who make a ton of cash by actually being really really good at their sport, winning championships and being rewarded with endorsement deals. But most female athletes need non-sports attention for money, and boobies is the quickest way to get it.
The weather is here, I wish you were beautiful
For sure.
The Williams sisters and Cyborg are the exceptions rather than the rule. Allowed to be “famous” for their talent rather than their looks.
So, who's the chick again on top wearing a two-piece?
Think about how dumb the average person is, then realize that half of them are even dumber than that.
- P-Dub
by The Negation on Feb 25, 2010 6:02 AM EST up reply actions
I think there are two things to separate here
Discussions like this can get a little dangerous because it is very easy to fall into the common trap of slut-shaming. I have to commend Sarah Kaufmann (and Donna) for not falling into that.
The way female fighters are promoted leans pretty heavily towards objectification from a male centric audience. At the very least, it really doesn’t do much to keep that from happening, and it happens quite a bit. I think it is extremely valid and important to criticize a system that feeds off this kind of female objectification.
Given that, I couldn’t in good conscience criticize someone who chose to market themselves (or allow themselves to be marketed) in such a way, because hell, we make it really fucking hard for women to be recognized for the merits of their actions in the sport alone. To quote the old adage “Don’t hate the player, hate the game.” Most of these people just want to fight, and will do what it takes to allow them to do that. I can’t hate on that.
On a sidenote, I have no problem with this site’s objectification of male fighters. I would argue that most of these men (and men in general) have no problem being seen as something other than the object of desire, whereas female fighters (and women in general) do not have this privilege. They often struggle to be seen as something other than the object of desire.
My motto,
As I live and learn,
is:
Dig and Be Dug
In Return.
-Langston Hughes (no relation to Matt)
Absolutely
They have to get in the game somehow, and I see no fault in doing what they have to. I do feel sorry for Sarah Kaufman, who may not get the press she deserves cause she doesn’t want to fall into the hot chick in a bikini category.
Thank you for your excellent comments.
I hold hope for Kaufman
Because I see the hardcore fans latching on to her solely on the merits of her performance in fights. This is extremely promising. Whether or not she is able to break into the mainstream on those merits will say a lot about the state of female MMA. The cynic in me doesn’t hold much hope, but the fighter in me would love to see her tear her fists and shins in to the hearts of fight fans everywhere. :)
My motto,
As I live and learn,
is:
Dig and Be Dug
In Return.
-Langston Hughes (no relation to Matt)
i like watching women's mma b/c of people like kaufman.
she will beat that japanese lady this friday (i think her name is takayo hashi) i’ll pass on christine santos in playboy but the ladies here seem to have the pantydropper section. i got no problem with women with skills showing off there bodies. trust me gina carano will do playboy. she had a picture i think in maxim which showed just about everything that could be legally shown in that mag.
I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. I was building a house, I don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. Bang. "Unforgiven" I drink your milkshake. I drink it up! "There Will BE Blood"
by wolfmanshowlforever on Feb 24, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I saw the Carano shots
Couldn’t post them cause of copyright issues. The question for me is, are they choosing to do this cause that’s what they want, or is it because that’s the only way for them to get any publicity/attention as a female fighter?
gina did do american gladiators and also did that muay thai show in thailand.
she then went on to win a few fights in strikeforce but after that fight with “cyborg” santos i think she may have suffered a mild concussion or just maybe a massive headache for a few days. i think she wants an easier way for some money now. either way she put in her time and i would have no problem with her posing. as for danica patrick i think she won 1 race over in europe that did not have many great racers in it. she is like the kimbo slice of nascar. she got 2.3 million more people to watch it then regulary would have watched it. she definitely endorses too many things imo and she is not very attractive to me. i see why other people might think she is attractive just not my type. i do like watching sarah kaufman fight and she punches hard. i’ll say she knocks out the japanese lady and now they get 5 minutes a round like the man. it’s slowly building and as more women do it, it will only get more popular.
I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. I was building a house, I don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. Bang. "Unforgiven" I drink your milkshake. I drink it up! "There Will BE Blood"
by wolfmanshowlforever on Feb 24, 2010 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
This is why I cannot follow female MMA—the idea that sexy is more important than face-bashing. I find it entirely unattractive and, like someone said above, Gina Carano is dead sexy…but I stopped paying attention when she started posing half naked for MMA mags. The sad thing is, she has never been a crazy good fighter…she’s been hot, which has garnered more attention then her skills.
Exactly!
What was strange to me about the Carano/Cyborg fight is how much men were talking about how hot Carano is, but then watched her get punched in the face!
It's weird to me
That people can’t separate the two things. I used to have a difficult time watching a woman get punched in the face. Whether it was Gina or Cyborg or Tate or whomever. It had nothing to do if they weren’t hot or not. I’ve gotten past that and can see somebody like Gina for what she is. An absolutely gorgeous woman and a decent fighter.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
gina has only lost twice. nobody is going to beat santos.
I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. I was building a house, I don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. Bang. "Unforgiven" I drink your milkshake. I drink it up! "There Will BE Blood"
by wolfmanshowlforever on Feb 25, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Well, it isn’t as if Carano is untalented. She beat Sexton, Maxwell, Kedzie, Evinger, Young, and Kobold before she lost to Cyborg. She probably outweighed a few of those people, but she wasn’t exactly fighting chumps. She has shown quite a bit of talent and even had flashes of brilliance in her (very one-sided) loss to Cyborg. I think part of the intrigue of Carano is figuring out if she is as talented as she is marketable. Losing to Cyborg doesn’t give us a definitive “no”, so that intrigue will still be there if she decides to come back to fighting. I think to sum up, she couldn’t have gotten anywhere (in this sport, anyway) if she sucked at fighting.
I am curious, though. What is it about the semi-nude posing that turns you off to the women’s division entirely? It annoys the living shit out of me when there are two kick ass female fighters and all the dudes can do is talk about which one they want to bone and which one looks like a man. But for me it means there’s a lot more noise to filter through to get to the fights I really want to see, and I value the fights enough to put up with the noise. Granted, as a man, I don’t really have to put up with that kind of bullshit on a daily basis. (You obviously don’t have to answer if you don’t feel like it).
My motto,
As I live and learn,
is:
Dig and Be Dug
In Return.
-Langston Hughes (no relation to Matt)
It’s a double standard. When the guys start posing nearly naked and getting asked questions in interviews about how attractive they are, then I won’t be as picky…but you rarely hear anything about a female fighter that isn’t tying into how she looks. Hell, even Cyborg who’s a damn bulldog, gets that attention. It’s like a given part of the equation now that if you are a female fighter, you will offset your toughness/perceived bad-ass-ness with looking sexy for weigh-ins or whatever. It’s like they have to qualify that yes, they are female and reinforce the idea that regardless of how talented they are, their primary job is eye candy…even announcers during fights play into this. IT seems like the prevailing attitude is that women are playing at MMA, which I find kind of odd…no one says that or implies that with men.
I disagree re: Carano—I think the Cyborg fight proved she can’t hang. She looked like she didn’t even want to be there and totally folded under pressure. Kaufman is worlds better than she is, yet hasn’t gotten nearly the attention Carano has.
As soon as women represent >20-30% of the paying market for men's MMA,
you’ll see questions about their attractiveness and such all day long. But as long as it’s 18-34 year old (predominantly) straight guys paying their checks, you won’t get that angle. It really has nothing to do with double-standard in this particular instance, compared to an office worker’s upward mobility being tied to her appearance (which is the definition of a double-standard).
Good looking fighters (either physically or socially) have always been pimped by the various MMA organizations out there. Kimbo was attractive not in a sexual way, but because of his whole street cred mystique. Tito was a real, honest-to-goodness Bad Boy who could run his mouth and back it up (for a long time, anyways). Brock Lesnar gets a disproportionate amount of hype because of his physical appearance and his ‘attractiveness’ to the 18-34 demo due to his history in WWF and collegiate wrestling. GSP was pushed incredibly hard at the start of his career because of his appearance physically.
I honestly don’t think that it’s a double-standard. For the 18-34 PEOPLE, sex sells better than pretty much anything. If the target demo were 18-34 women, absolutely the roles would be reversed and Gal’s Guide would be representative of a main segment of the audience’s interest, even though much of what is done here is semi-tongue-in-cheek. The fact that it’s mostly men supporting the sport just tilts it the other way.
Now, I think you’d have a great argument if Cyborg had been held out of high-level events. But she hasn’t, not even tentatively. Her skills and abilities inside the cage/ring have earned her the position she’s in.
Re: Carano’s marketing and presentation to the MMA viewing public, we see this with every organization’s handling of fighters. Often times you’ll see a debate about whether or not a fighter is on the upswing or the backside of their career. If they’re on the backside of their career, organizations will often use their name (Tank Abbot, Ken Shamrock, etc..) in an effort to legitimize an up-and-comer. Carano was essentially given that role for her fight with Cyborg, due more to her popularity than perceived declining skills. Her insane marketability and fan-base was parlayed into a fight against the top women’s fighter in the world, with most everyone knowing that Cyborg would win, but the reason she was used there was an attempt to legitimize Cyborg. And I think it worked.
It’s a great debate to have. I think people fall into the trap of thinking ‘double standard’ a bit too quickly in our society. I really think this is a marketability/credibility thing first and foremost. EXC parlayed Gina’s marketability into credibility, and Strikeforce transferred much of that credibility to their top fighter in true based-on-the-merits fashion. I thoroughly applaud the handling of women’s MMA to this point.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
I think part of the reason female fighters pose like that is to show that they are still feminine. Does it end up being counter productive cause they go from athletes to eyecandy? yep. But you can’t fault them for trying to break those norms.
I don’t know which side of the fence I’m on because I see both perspectives, but I’m not gonna get bummed if any female athlete decides to wear bikinis at a photoshoot. I’m a dude afterall.
twitter.com/thisredengine
and therein lies the problem…fighting is not considered a feminine activity, so women need to prove they are to be taken seriously, except they aren’t because they’re showing up in bikinis to show they’re feminine..
But these are still women who want to still be considered feminine. I’m not saying go as far as Michelle Waterson and be a swimsuit model, but trying to look pretty may help the image that these aren’t just a bunch of angry broads…they are actually good looking athletes.
twitter.com/thisredengine
by thisredengine on Feb 28, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
BTW
Y’all got some love from Kid Nate and BE
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/2/24/1325310/can-a-female-fighter-make-it-on
My motto,
As I live and learn,
is:
Dig and Be Dug
In Return.
-Langston Hughes (no relation to Matt)
For what it's worth
…the only promotion really pushing women’s MMA at the moment is Strikeforce and, as the last few weeks have shown, their PR people don’t really seem to be putting in the time at the office. Look at a fighter like Kerry Vera – attractive and (as Kim Couture found out the hard way) a total wrecking machine in the cage, but since that fight we’ve heard almost nothing about her. It’s like they’re taking the initiative to bring in eyeballs since the promoters aren’t really doing their jobs, IMO. I feel pretty confident in saying that if Kerry Vera had been doing bikini shoots in Maxim it would probably be her fighting for the 135lb title in the upcoming Challengers event.
I also think the “sexy” shoots are more about promoting themselves and pushing into other arenas – Toughill and Carano were on American Gladiators, Couture is “building the Couture brand” (whatever the hell that means), Carano and Patrick are pushing into other arenas like acting. Then you’ve got ladies like Michelle Waterson who do modelling as a side gig.
I personally enjoy women’s MMA and have no problem with consenting adults signing up to beat the bejesus out of each other – equality in the sexes and all that. I think that when they bring it they put a lot of the men to shame. I don’t expect pretty girls
Get rid of the ramp!
Absolutely
I think one big problem here is that a lot of people don’t want to see women fight. I’ve got no problem saying that I don’t like watching women fight, and I’ve heard the same thing from a lot of MMA fans. The boob shot pictures may be a way for Strikeforce to push their fighters, but it just adds a certain side show element to it that I don’t like.
freewill. nobody is making these ladies fight. i like woman's mma b/c of there skills but if......
they happen to be attractive that is like a bonus to me. like the guy said above i’m a guy and two attractive women beating each other up is better than the opposite. i said this story once before but in las vegas at the old stardust they had a muay thai women fight night. solid night of fights. the last fight was a women you would consider a little plump and she was fighting a women who had one picture in playboy. the entire audience was for the playboy gal until the other lady started destroying her in the ring and the crowd totally swayed her way and she knocked her out with a 180 spining back fist. the crowd went wild. you can change perceptions and an audience if you got skills.
I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. I was building a house, I don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. Bang. "Unforgiven" I drink your milkshake. I drink it up! "There Will BE Blood"
by wolfmanshowlforever on Feb 25, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Sarah Should Be a Star
With her unbeaten record and the fact that she’s one of the nicest people I have the pleasure of calling a friend, she should be getting a serious push from Strikeforce as one of the faces of the franchise.
But right now, that isn’t the case. They’re coming around – making it the main event was a good decision – but it still seems like having a bunch of dudes drooling over you gets you more of a push than putting up wins in the cage.
What’s crazier – and worse – is that Sarah is a good looking girl. She’s also a helluva fighter.
Thanks for the link love – you ladies are doing a damn fine job over here!
Canadian Bureau Chief and Staff Writer - MMA Madness - www.mmamadness.com
by E. Spencer Kyte on Feb 24, 2010 8:59 PM EST reply actions
WTF
This coming from the site which regularly talks about how hot male MMA fighters are? Try not to be so hypocritical, because you obviously “objectify” men in the same way that men “objectify” women, so whats the difference? Your remark that you still cover other fighters lacks any real empirical evidence that other blogs are specifically not covering attractive female fighters, in fact, female MMA as a whole is not as developed and it seems to me that you arent covering women’s MMA any more completely or responsibly than anyone else, but you regularly discuss the sexual aspects of male MMA. So get off your high horse and use a little common sense before making statements so overly broad that they offer little more than useless hyperbole.
by nomomrnicekyle on Feb 25, 2010 12:06 AM EST reply actions
I definitely see your point, but I don’t think we’re being hypocritical. There is a double standard here that I believe you are ignoring. I don’t give a crap if men objectify female MMA fighters, cause you’re right we do it every week with Pantydropper of the Week. The argument is more if it is necessary for women fighters to pose in bikini shots to get any sort of publicity. Male fighters certainly don’t feel the need to do this (accept maybe for Akiyama) to be popular. We’ve always been honest about not being big fans of female MMA, which is why we don’t really cover it.
Gals Guide to MMA
Akiyama can’t help it. He sees a camera and his shirt removes itself.
But this:
it is necessary for women fighters to pose in bikini shots to get any sort of publicity
America didn’t give two craps about beach Volleyball until we had Kerri Walsh and Misty May-Treanor. Hardcore MMA fans already know the Sarah Kaufmans of the world, the issue is with the casuals.
Not it’s not. Beach volleyball, men’s and women’s, has been on both network and regional cable TV (Fox Sports Regions) since the early 90s. Just because Wookie wasn’t aware of it until the recent summer Olympics doesn’t mean it wasn’t there.
The weather is here, I wish you were beautiful
I’m not talking about objectifying women. That’s a whole can of worms that I have no interest in opening here. The question isn’t whether these women are being objectified, but rather, are the only women fighters that are getting the good fights and publicity the ones that are willing to to appear in skimpy clothing? If so, then Sarah Kaufman isn’t going to get a fair shot in Strikeforce because she doens’t want to take those kinds of pictures. I tend to agree with loboplata who said that most men wouldn’t have a problem as being seen as the object of desire. I would say it’s because men get attention based on their merit, and a pretty face is just a bonus.
But men don’t have to pose nearly nude for attention, do they? Their masculinity isn’t questioned because they fight, is it? Announcers don’t refer to them as pretty and delicate, do they?
joe rogan once called frank mir a metrosexual.
if he takes another beating from brock lesnar i expect to see him in playgirl. all the ladies here can tell me is he worth the wax and if it would be time to get it on.
I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. I was building a house, I don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. Bang. "Unforgiven" I drink your milkshake. I drink it up! "There Will BE Blood"
by wolfmanshowlforever on Mar 1, 2010 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
you would not take a peek if he was in there?
it pays more than being a bouncer at strip clubs in las vegas.
I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. I was building a house, I don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. Bang. "Unforgiven" I drink your milkshake. I drink it up! "There Will BE Blood"
by wolfmanshowlforever on Mar 2, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
cyborg's response to playboy's offer
i just wanted to take a second to clarify cris santos’ stance on posing for playboy. i got this from her interview with sherdog a few weeks ago.
there were a few lines in your blog like “Cyborg is a woman that could put a serious beat down on about 90% of the male population, but she still feels the need to show her boobs in Playboy?” that i thought were a little misinformed.
http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/12-Questions-for-Cris-Cyborg-Santos-22251
Sherdog.com: Playboy had made an inquiry about you posing nude in their magazine. How did that pan out?
Santos: (Silence)
Sherdog.com: Was it an embarrassing story for you when it was revealed?
Santos: Yeah, for sure. I heard people were talking about it on the Internet and I probably commented to only two or three people that knew about it. Less than 24 hours later, I went online and saw my picture with everyone talking about the Playboy (offer). I just wanted to die! I went into desperation mode: how did everybody know about it? It was very, very uncomfortable because it wasn’t something I’d said yes to. It was just a possibility. I hadn’t even had a chance to talk to my husband about it, but once I did, he wasn’t very happy about it at all. It wasn’t supposed to come out. It was literally just one conversation I’d had with one person. I don’t think it’s what I need to be focusing on right now, especially since Cyborg isn’t too happy about it.
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